SWAO:Conference Call 20141103

Number 13
Duration 1.5 hour90 minute
5,400 second
0.0625 day
Date/Time Nov 03 2014 15:00 GMT
7:00 PST/10:00 EST
3:00pm BST/4:00pm CET
Convener Mike Bennett

IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology (SWAO) SIG

Meetings are normally on the first Monday of the month at these times.


  • Housekeeping
  • Continue our discussion on creating an introductory online/training tutorial
    • Update on actions from last time
      • Feedback from Education Committee
      • "Gentle introduction to ontologies" - availability?
  • Tutorial / training material and media
    • White paper for business people
    • Book - continue discussion / where were we on this?
  • Issue of the Journal of Applied Ontology
    • Current status
    • Actions
  • Ontology Summit
    • Discussion for upcoming Ontology Summit planning meeting this Thursday (6 Nov)
  • Something else this SIG can do (Mike B): Consensus Building
    • We are planning various training, documentation and presentation ideas above
    • Is there a clear map of where there is consensus and where there are simply different schools of thought?
      • Example: most authorities recognize a distinction between conceptual and operational ontologies but some don't
      • Example: some ontology designers leave out property domains and ranges for design reasons, others think this is wrong.
    • Would it be a good role for this SIG to maintain a kind of wiki resource which identifies consensus, references; maybe guest blog posts defending one or another point of view or contextualizing a given "best practice" guideline?
      • Discussion...
    • Existing resources we would want to collate and promote
      • Should we aim to maintain a library - or is that in hand via Education Committee?
      • In particular with reference to our mission to bridge the gaps between communities
  • Membership, recruitment etc.
    • Things we can do now the infrastructure is sorted out
    • Brainstorm and share information about people and projects relevant to this SIG and reach out them to make them aware of our existence and maybe invite them for a talk or an informal chat.
      • Linked Data
      • Big Data
      • Terminology and related science
    • Establish knowledge base and list of knowledgeable individuals, and understand current work, projects and interests
  • AOB
  • Next Meeting

Chat transcript

[07:04] Mike Bennett: Apologies:

[07:04] Mike Bennett: Leo Obrst

[07:04] Mike Bennett: Elie Abi-Lahoud


[07:11] Mike Bennett: Wiki links updated with the scripts

[07:11] Mike Bennett: Names: There is an open action on these

[07:12] Mike Bennett: On the landing page you see all the details of some meeting but not others.

[07:12] Mike Bennett: We still need to migrate the content from the old CIM3 pages for SWAO meetings prior to the transfer to the new wiki

[07:13] Mike Bennett: Action: Ken will track these down and transfer them.

[07:13] Mike Bennett: Other housekeeping:

[07:14] Mike Bennett: Ken is working on a registration system for when people email in to join the SIG.

[07:14] Mike Bennett: THis will be a web service page where people can put in their email address and then it goes into the approval from there.

[07:15] Mike Bennett: Will including getting their required details e.g. wiki name and password and so on.

[07:15] Mike Bennett: This gives them full access to the wiki so they can edit their namesake page. They will also be able to edit any meeting page.

[07:16] Mike Bennett: Elie still has no log-in so his account could be set up as a test of this?

[07:17] Mike Bennett: Elie Abi-Lahoud

[07:18] Mike Bennett: Wiki name could be one of 2 or 3 things depending how this translates to CamelCase

[07:18] Todd Schneider: I'll be calling in momentarily.

[07:18] Andrea Westerinen: Sorry that I am late. I had another call at 10am.

[07:19] Mike Bennett: The IAOA SIGs page link:

[07:19] Mike Bennett: - the button works

[07:19] Mike Bennett: -the link to the SWAO page works

[07:20] Mike Bennett: The list of SIGs further down the SIGs page still does not list the SWAO SIG - this needs to be addressed.

[07:22] Mike Bennett: So the links all work as required - we did not need to use the new blog as part of these links, however ...

[07:22] Mike Bennett: We can think about what to use the blog for now.

[07:22] Mike Bennett: Ideas:

[07:22] Mike Bennett: Could have discussions, ideas and comments there.

[07:23] Mike Bennett: For example we could have a brief blog post that introduces a topic and use the comments for more discussion around the topic.

[07:24] Mike Bennett: Separately, we could also invite full blog entries and start a conversation around those.

[07:24] Mike Bennett: We also have the mailing list for conversations.

[07:24] Mike Bennett: IF we conect the blog to the mailing list then we could ensure that conversations on the blog are carried forward into the mailing list.

[07:25] Mike Bennett: How do we get people's attention to the blog?

[07:25] Mike Bennett: e.g. links from wiki and from SWAO website.

[07:25] Mike Bennett: If the blog is linked ot the mail list then when a new entry is posted this will be seen in the mailing list.

[07:26] Mike Bennett: Andrea has a blog entry on how to do applied ontologies, i.e. "How to" from an applied ontology perspective.

[07:29] Andrea Westerinen: Do we need to register to post to the blog?

[07:30] Mike Bennett: Jump forward to the "Consensus" part of the agenda...

[07:30] Mike Bennett: THere are things where not everyone agrees, but just as in databases, there are many best practices but no one way to do a database.

[07:32] Mike Bennett: Do we need to collect multiple perspectives on some of the areas of the training and introduction material, so it's clear where the debates are.

[07:32] Mike Bennett: Part of this would be to use the blog as a way of having that debate.

[07:32] Mike Bennett: So the blog can help us get a view of what are the areas that are still under discussion.

[07:32] Mike Bennett: Blog Access

[07:33] Mike Bennett: Everyone who has access to the wiki should be given access to the blog page.

[07:34] Mike Bennett: The alternative is that the 3 or so people with login access end up having to be gatekeepers for the blog and have to post each entry themselves.

[07:34] Mike Bennett: Option 1 above is more attractive.

[07:35] Mike Bennett: The admins can always delete anything inappropriate if that happens.

[07:35] Mike Bennett: If the goal of the blog is to facilitate conversation about ontologies shouldn't it be open to anyone under the sun?

[07:36] Mike Bennett: Given that the goal of shi SIG is promulgate best practices then we want to encourage everyone to ask questions.

[07:38] Mike Bennett: Move towards a more open discussion via the blog - with admins stamping on any misbehavior if necessary.

[07:38] Mike Bennett: If there ends up being spam we might need to look at whether there is a way to block IP addresses if needed - wwould need to find otu from blogger.com

[07:39] Mike Bennett: Consensus:

[07:39] Mike Bennett: We all agree to try this as an experiment.

[07:39] Mike Bennett: Mike will monitor.

[07:40] Mike Bennett: Basic settings generally have that you can set who blog authors are - you can add authors, but can you "add public"?

[07:40] Mike Bennett: On Blogspot for instance you can't.

[07:42] Mike Bennett: If it's not possible to allow the unregistered public to create blog entries, then at least we can create a blog entry which asks for comments or opinions, and then everyone can pile in tot he conversation that way.

[07:43] Mike Bennett: Action: Mike to look into what can and can't be done in Blogger in the spirit of the above.

[07:43] Mike Bennett: We should add everyone who has access to the wiki to be able to post.

[07:45] Mike Bennett: Some of these may need to create new accounts with Blogger if they don't have already

[07:45] Mike Bennett: https://www.blogger.com/home

[07:46] Mike Bennett: Are these the same thing as Blogspot?


[07:46] Todd Schneider: So you need a Google account to use this?

[07:47] Mike Bennett: Our instructions to SIG members about needing an account should note that the account may be with either Blogger or BlogSpot, as these are the same thing.

[07:47] Mike Bennett: http://bloginstructions.blogspot.co.uk/

[07:48] Andrea Westerinen: I think that you just have to have some email account and have to register.

[07:48] Mike Bennett: Action: Get everyone who has access to wiki to send one of the admins their BlogSpot / Blogger account, and admin will then add them.

[07:49] Mike Bennett: This can be done as an email to the SIG circulation.

[07:50] Mike Bennett: All we would need to add someone to the blog write access might be just having an email address? OR they need to sign up.

[07:51] Mike Bennett: We decided not to set up a fresh Blogger account inthe name of each person based on their email as this may result in people have multiple Blogger accounts. Consensus is we ask for their Blogger ID.

[07:51] Mike Bennett: Actions:

[07:51] Mike Bennett: 1. Put an email out as above

[07:52] Mike Bennett: 2. Add a page to the WEbsite OR put it on another page...

[07:52] Mike Bennett: Suggestion: put a link to this on the landing page.

[07:52] Mike Bennett: Action: Add text to the landing page.

[07:53] Mike Bennett: This is the SWAO website landing page AND the wiki landing page.

[07:53] Mike Bennett: Encourage comments and conversation to go there.

[07:55] Mike Bennett: May also end up generating ideas for articles or white papers that the group generates, from these conversations.

[07:56] Mike Bennett: Immediate aactions:

[07:56] Mike Bennett: 1. first posting

[07:56] Mike Bennett: 2. Content for the landing pages and email to drive people there.

[07:56] Mike Bennett: What sort of thing could first question-generating blog post?

[07:57] Mike Bennett: "What do you think an ontology is"

[07:57] Mike Bennett: "How do you use ontologies"

[07:57] Mike Bennett: "How do you abuse ontologies?"

[07:58] Andrea Westerinen: If we open with something like "what do you think an ontology is?" we immediately get into a debate.

[07:58] Mike Bennett: "Why should use or not use an upper ontology?"

[07:58] Mike Bennett: Goal of first question is to get people's questions not give them the question.

[07:59] Mike Bennett: Write up something that says what are the questions?

[07:59] Mike Bennett: Don't want to set the wrong tone e.g. the philosophical example above.

[08:00] Mike Bennett: More specific: "What questions do you have AND What problems do you have?"

[08:00] Mike Bennett: "Ask the experts... which includes you!"

[08:00] Mike Bennett: Volunteers: Andrea will take a first cut at this and send to the mail list

[08:00] Mike Bennett: Mike can add instructions etc. once this is in flight, so people know how to follow up.

Online training etc.

Any update from the Education Ctee?

[08:05] Mike Bennett: Leo would be the person they will have got back to.

[08:05] Mike Bennett: Action: Email Leo and find out if we have heard anything back from the EdC.

[08:05] Mike Bennett: Mike will email Leo

[08:06] Mike Bennett: Gentle Introduction ton Ontologies - did we hear from them? No

[08:06] Mike Bennett: Mark Fox.

[08:07] Mike Bennett: Action: Andrea will reach out to Mark Fox.

[08:08] Andrea Westerinen: [@Mike, xx:07] Just sent an email to Mark.

[08:09] Mike Bennett: Ontology Summit: Is there still a second session this Thursday or was moved to December?

[08:09] Mike Bennett: Action: Mike to confirm with Leo when the summit decision will be made.

[08:09] Mike Bennett: There were 3 proposals each of which needs to be fleshed out a bit.

[08:09] Mike Bennett: Our proposal on the book is one of these.

[08:10] Mike Bennett: The other proposals were to do with Big Data and about the Internet of Things.

[08:10] Mike Bennett: Education could be a component of any of them.

[08:12] Todd Schneider: Sorry , but I need to go. Cheers.

[08:12] Mike Bennett: So for example a summit on the Internet of Things would need a track which pulsl together the existing knowledge on applied ontology and Semantic Web ontologies and shows how this would be adapted and used in the IoT requirements.

[08:13] Mike Bennett: So the book / BoK / wiki etc. ideas are still very much on our plate.

[08:13] Mike Bennett: Decide on topic, focus and get an outline.

[08:14] Mike Bennett: What are we aiming to synthesize?

[08:16] Mike Bennett: for instance what would it take to do an ontology around the concepts in schema.org?

[08:16] Mike Bennett: THere are also different approaches to how to do things within schema.org i.e. the ways one can relate concepts to each other.

[08:17] Mike Bennett: THere may be someone looking at doing a schema.org representation in OWL - what would it take for that to be an ontology as we understand it, as distinct from merely being something.owl

[08:18] Mike Bennett: How can you ontologize schema.org or a sub-set thereof?

[08:18] Andrea Westerinen: Yes, not for standardization but for education and explanation.

[08:19] Mike Bennett: not for standardization perhaps but simply how to apply schema.org in a practical operational ontology application.

[08:19] Mike Bennett: Correction the above may be DBPedia rather than schema.org

[08:20] Mike Bennett: Sooner or later the idea will occur to someone.

[08:21] Mike Bennett: THe above would be well worth following up with DBPedia anyway so we can get some engagement from the LikedData folks.

[08:22] Mike Bennett: Action: Let's do some basic googling on who's doing what in these areas, and get some conversations going via the blog (after our first blog posting as above).

Issue of the Journal of Applied Ontology

[08:23] Mike Bennett: Check back on earlier minutes for who had the action item on that.

[08:25] Mike Bennett: Action last time was to establish a couple of people to focus on this.

[08:26] Mike Bennett: Volunteers: Ken and Andrea

[08:26] Mike Bennett: THey will take the role "Guest Editors" in pulling together the proposed issue of the Journal.

[08:26] Ken Baclawski: I will take the lead on the special issue for Applied Ontology

[08:26] Andrea Westerinen: And I will help.

[08:27] Mike Bennett: ACtions will include doing a Call for Papers - so the Guest Editors will put together a CfP based on some of the ideas in the chat log.

[08:28] Mike Bennett: Timelines? For the Special Issue (give us time to get ideas from the Blog).

[08:29] Mike Bennett: Action: Have concrete proposals for the meeting next month.

[08:29] Mike Bennett: Can refine ideas following that.

Next Meeting

[08:29] Mike Bennett: Is Dec 01.


[08:30] Mike Bennett: no

[08:32] Mike Bennett: Convenor: Ken will be the convenor / facilitator for the next meeting

[08:33] Mike Bennett: Ken will post the audio

[08:33] Ken Baclawski: Meeting is adjourned

[08:38] List of attendees: Andrea Westerinen, Ken Baclawski, Mike Bennett, Mike Dean, Todd Schneider

Audio Recording

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