SWAO:Conference Call 20191111

Number 72
Duration 1 hour60 minute
3,600 second
0.0417 day
Date/Time November 11 2019 19:00 GMT
11:00 PST/2:00pm EST
7:00pm GMT/8:00pm CST
Convener Mike Bennett

IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology (SWAO) SIG

Meetings are normally on the first Monday of the month at these times.


  1. The new website for SWAO is now installed at https://wiki.iaoa.org/index.php/SWAO:Home
    1. SWAO (and other SIGs) each will have their own namespace and category.
    2. Meeting pages are now named with the date of the meeting rather than the number of the meeting.
    3. Migration is an ongoing activity, but it is progressing well.
    4. What works?
    5. What's next?
  2. The Education SIG website has been has the namespace "Edu".
    1. The IAOA term list/glossary has been migrated!
  3. The issue tracker at https://trac.iaoa.org is running well, but is still being customized.
  4. Matters arising / any other business


1. SWAO Website

KB working on 2 parts to the wiki:

1. Education SIG



Needed separate namespace for things like Conference Calls versus Meetings etc. Use namespaces in Wikimedia for these distinctions

edu is the namespace for the Education Committee

swao is the SWAO namespace.

Everything has to be preceded by its prefix e.g. swao:

Everything? Everything that has an IRI.

wiki.iaoa.org is the main page

The delimiter goes in the path e.g. wiki.aoa.org / something / something / edu:Category

Eventually the URI will have the prefix but the highlighted word will not.

These things can also be given a category.

e.g. the category 'term' is not the same as edu:term

Term as a category represents a collection of pages.

edu:term is the term Term in the Glossary.

These exist at different meta-levels.

We are all ontologists here so this should not be an issue.

TS: Is this a potential source of confusion?

MB: Not to an ontologist.

KB: We can add HowTo pages to this wiki, describing the semantics of the wiki itself.

TS: Not a high priority.

Every page has a Discussion page.

The discussion points go back into before this migration, but the history tab does not.


ToddSchneider: Ken, what ID and password are needed to edit the new wiki pages?

Note that https://wiki.iaoa.org/index.php/SWAO:Conference_Call_20191007 superseded the old one with n71 in its name, and has the minutes

AndreaWesterinen: Ken, just got the error ... There is no user by the name "arwesterinen". When I tried to reset my password.

KB will gradually add these old ones and make the old names synonymous with the new ones, as true synonyms.

AW new user addition - working through issues on that. account was created.

The new wiki is case sensitive whereas the previous one was not.

TS will check against Maria's site in case there are any such issues - will correct on sight.


Per our design decisions last time, we have the colors and background as specified. The banner will be replaced with one that is closer to our chosen colors.

the Edu Ctee may have other views on the visual design but nothing heard from them as yet on this

2A. The Glossary

There was some discussion prior about levels of sophistication

MB pleased to see it does not include content terms like countries and so on.

End result looks good.

It was a lot of work to make this work.

It does not intend to include CS terms.

TS: IS it too soon to add this link to IOF Resources page?

KB: This is OK to add now.

There will always be things being added.

TS: There is work to do on the Occurrents page.

MB: This is true - I expected to see the range of things in in Fabricio's paper that was presented at IOF, or the range of definitions and sources as seen in the entries for Ontology.

KB: What kind of thing is a Situation?

MB: I think from Fabricio it was a Continuant.

TS thinks maybe it is occurrent.

MB we should be able to think about 'how concept X is conceptualized) e.g. Situation as Occurrent or as Continuants, depending how the end user conceptualizes that notion in its world.

Some discussion on Situation


SMW has a concept of 'Synonym' as part of its language.

The synonyms listed in the Term List are only approximations not true synonyms.

SMW lets you have a true synonym, i.e. 2 URLs for the same actual page. These are logically equivalent (same page). Like having a word in another language.

KB: This is not what synonym means here.

MB IFF the Semantic Shed wanted to maintain its own Glossary, e.g. for CS terms, or AI terms we would use links to the IAOA edu one.

KB: You can't use synonym for those, across different systems or namespaces. If the Shed did need to do a Glossary it would use URIs.

1. More on the Wiki Design and Actions

Internal Taxonomy for Wiki

The IAOA Edu Ctee also has books.

However these are all on one page, and all the courses on another one page.

Or indeed all one big page.

Shouldn't these be at least 2 distinct pages?

For courses, each course has a series of properties, which are fairly consistent, so that if they made them separate classes (pages) then each course could be put on its own page.

This means that you would go to one wiki page for one course.

You would not need to jump through multiple pages when looking at one course.

KB will action this segregation.

Would any of the properties of courses be able to be used anywhere else?

i.e. reused on the same wiki for different kinds of thing besides courses

(NOT: reused on other sites for the same kind of thing)

MB We should consider the overall hierarchy of abstractions for such properties so that more general things have properties common to a wider range of things, all of which are children of that.

SMW has Category and Property

So Category == OWL Class

And Property == property

In SMW the only instance of Category can be pages.

Can have sub-category.

'belongs to' that equates to the Generalization relationship. This is the one used to create the taxonomy we need.

We currently have 41 properties. Most of these are built on.

Is this already in place and if so, please can we see the Taxonomy?

There is not such a taxonomy at present.

There is also a sub property relationship.

MB recommends we use sub property carefully i.e. lean on the class (Category) hierarchy but use sub properties where there is a narrower property concept that has the same or a narrower domain.

TS: There is a thing called Concept

Dynamic Category - is a category defined by a Query (like a class constructor in OWL). We are not using that.

Difficulty: Queries are nice and you can do dynamic content based on these but it is not instantaneous when you update a page i.e. changes to pages don't make it that the queries update themselves automatically.

TS: We do not really expect that anyway.

So not so much 'Not instantaneous' as 'Not supported'.

These are called 'Concepts' in SMW.

ToddSchneider: See https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Concepts

There are categories whose members are explicitly defined by a list, and categories defines by a query. Concepts are categories defined by a query.

3. Issue Tracker

This is a thing called 'trac' that was designed for software development. Has been adapted to IAOA. Used for tasks not just changes.

This defined tickets, but is used not only for changes to the system uunder management, but also for tasks (like paying someone)

MB thinks that is a bad idea.

trac is independent from everything else on the IAOA

Why do we care about this at SWAO?

KB: Has created a project for SWAO in trac

However we can't access this.

4. AoB

TS: On the SWAO Page there is a page for Events.

Is all the existing material Events going to be moved across to that?

KB: Yes.

KB Can show us more about trac next time. Then we can decide whether to use it and if so, for what.

NB to use this you specify a port number

(for the application or something else?)


Hosted by IAOA

which is 777


How minutes from previous meetings would be represented?

Each meeting would have its own page (identified by date) as described above. The original meeting number will appear on the page.

The queries for next and previous meetings is not working yet.

Recommend doing that after we have formalized the nice taxonomy of Categories (classes) as described above.

Next meeting:

2 December (not a public holiday anywhere we care about)

Agenda: Finalize the taxonomy and the properties to go with it.


  • Mike Bennett
  • Andrea Westerinen
  • Ken Baclawski
  • Todd Schneider


Next Meetings

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Previous Meetings

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