Difference between revisions of "SWAO:Conference Call 20191111"

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<skin>Bouquet</skin>
 
 
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== Agenda ==
 
== Agenda ==
−
* The new website for SWAO is now installed at https://wiki.iaoa.org/index.php/SWAO:Home
+
# The new website for SWAO is now installed at https://wiki.iaoa.org/index.php/SWAO:Home
−
** SWAO (and other SIGs) each will have their own namespace and category.
+
## SWAO (and other SIGs) each will have their own namespace and category.
−
** Meeting pages are now named with the date of the meeting rather than the number of the meeting.
+
## Meeting pages are now named with the date of the meeting rather than the number of the meeting.
−
** Migration is an ongoing activity, but it is progressing well.
+
## Migration is an ongoing activity, but it is progressing well.
−
* The Education SIG website has been has the namespace "Edu".
+
## What works?
−
** The IAOA term list has been migrated.
+
## What's next?
−
* The issue tracker at https://trac.iaoa.org is running well, but is still being customized.
+
# The Education SIG website has been has the namespace "Edu".
−
* Matters arising / any other business
+
## The IAOA term list/glossary has been migrated!
 +
# The issue tracker at https://trac.iaoa.org is running well, but is still being customized.
 +
# Matters arising / any other business
  
 
== Proceedings ==
 
== Proceedings ==
−
[14:25] MikeBennett: The current skin is called Bouquet.
 
  
−
[14:25] MikeBennett: This is listed among the skins in the SMW list of these.
+
=== 1. SWAO Website ===
  
−
[14:25] MikeBennett: Can tweak the colors.
+
KB working on 2 parts to the wiki:
  
−
[14:26] MikeBennett: Banner can of course be dropped in, as we see in SWAO.
+
1. Education SIG
  
−
[14:26] MikeBennett: or SWAO:
+
2. SWAO SIG
  
−
[14:26] MikeBennett: Lose the Red
+
==== Namespaces ====
  
−
[14:26] MikeBennett: Use gray background with the cubes, IAOA banner
+
Needed separate namespace for things like Conference Calls versus Meetings etc. Use namespaces in Wikimedia for these distinctions
  
−
[14:26] MikeBennett: Put the IAOA logo on the left (transparent Gif)
+
edu is the namespace for the Education Committee
  
−
[14:27] MikeBennett: Then think of a branding (color, fonts, whether or not to have a graphic, whether or not to have a simple 4-letter thing like IAOA has).
+
swao is the SWAO namespace.
  
−
[14:27] MikeBennett: We are ahead of Ed Ctee on this
+
Everything has to be preceded by its prefix e.g. swao:
  
−
[14:27] MikeBennett: Uses a plugin to SMW called SkinPerPage
+
Everything? Everything that has an IRI.
  
−
[14:28] MikeBennett: SkinPerPage can be called (or not called) on each page. So you can have different look and feel for different thematic areas of a wiki structure.
+
wiki.iaoa.org is the main page
  
−
[14:28] MikeBennett: MB would like to use this for Semantic Shed - just go to the list above and gt it from there.
+
The delimiter goes in the path e.g. wiki.aoa.org / something / something / edu:Category
  
−
[14:29] MikeBennett: We used to use a different skin for every Summit on Ontolog Forum. This was chosen programmatically rather than as a declaration in the wiki text.
+
Eventually the URI will have the prefix but the highlighted word will not.
  
−
[14:31] MikeBennett: Somehow, things like [[sequence::71]] are being interpreted simply as pages, not as properties as they were before.
+
These things can also be given a category.
  
−
[14:31] MikeBennett: KB to investigate.
+
e.g. the category 'term' is not the same as edu:term
  
−
[14:32] MikeBennett: Properties in SMW - presumably these are a predicate, with a range that is another wiki page. then the properties are recognized and used by the kinds of application that Ken runs on these pages.
+
Term as a category represents a collection of pages.
  
−
[14:33] MikeBennett: We think this is correct. There is also another kind of page (mediaWiki calls it a Namespace Special)
+
edu:term is the term Term in the Glossary.
  
−
[14:33] MikeBennett: One of the Special pages is Properties. This is where the Properties are defined.
+
These exist at different meta-levels.
  
−
[14:34] MikeBennett: Is it possible that this existed in the previous set-up and was not brought across yet?
+
We are all ontologists here so this should not be an issue.
  
−
[14:34] MikeBennett: This seems to be the case - so KB will now be able to get the properties defined - thereby fixing the issues we currently see with the queries.
+
TS: Is this a potential source of confusion?
  
−
[14:34] MikeBennett: Next
+
MB: Not to an ontologist.
  
−
[14:35] MikeBennett: Accounts
+
KB: We can add HowTo pages to this wiki, describing the semantics of the wiki itself.
  
−
[14:35] MikeBennett: This is for editing the stuff.
+
TS: Not a high priority.
  
−
[14:36] MikeBennett: MB: I would like an account and would like as many others as possible also to have one, so we are not reliant on one person to set up the meetings.
+
Every page has a Discussion page.
  
−
[14:37] MikeBennett: MikeHypercube
+
The discussion points go back into before this migration, but the history tab does not.
  
−
[14:38] MikeBennett: Email: mbennett@hypercube.co.uk
+
==== Users ====
  
−
[14:39] MikeBennett: [please scramble this in the posted minutes]
+
ToddSchneider: Ken, what ID and password are needed to edit the new wiki pages?
  
−
[14:40] MikeBennett: Todd:
+
Note that https://wiki.iaoa.org/index.php/SWAO:Conference_Call_20191007 superseded the old one with n71 in its name, and has the minutes
  
−
[14:40] MikeBennett: TSCH
+
AndreaWesterinen: Ken, just got the error ... There is no user by the name "arwesterinen". When I tried to reset my password.
  
−
[14:42] MikeBennett: Transfer: within a month, in time for next SWAO meeting.
+
KB will gradually add these old ones and make the old names synonymous with the new ones, as true synonyms.
  
−
[14:43] MikeBennett: This will then be linked to from the IAOA website. Next month.
+
AW new user addition - working through issues on that. account was created.
  
−
[14:43] MikeBennett: The name of the page e.g. swao-confcall71
+
The new wiki is case sensitive whereas the previous one was not.
  
−
[14:44] MikeBennett: TS: Having the date in there would be very helpful.
+
TS will check against Maria's site in case there are any such issues - will correct on sight.
  
−
[14:44] MikeBennett: Do we even need the meeting number (sequence) e.g. 71, for the queries that we have? No.
+
==== Design ====
  
−
[14:45] MikeBennett: So no.
+
Per our design decisions last time, we have the colors and background as specified. The banner will be replaced with one that is closer to our chosen colors.
  
−
[14:45] MikeBennett: Conference or Meeting?
+
the Edu Ctee may have other views on the visual design but nothing heard from them as yet on this
  
−
[14:45] MikeBennett: Meeting is good.
 
  
−
[14:45] MikeBennett: That way we can have broader things called Conferences elsewhere without our having snapped up that word already.
+
=== 2A. The Glossary ===
  
−
[14:47] MikeBennett: Icomm uses the term Conference, this is an ontology for collaborative systems.
+
There was some discussion prior about levels of sophistication
  
−
[14:47] MikeBennett: However we don't like it it uses the word conference for an individual call, which does not match our own internal working ontology here.
+
MB pleased to see it does not include content terms like countries and so on.
  
−
[14:48] MikeBennett: Integrated Collaboration Object Model.
+
End result looks good.
  
−
[14:48] MikeBennett: This doesn't seem widely used.
+
It was a lot of work to make this work.
  
−
[14:48] MikeBennett: It does not match our ontology of these concepts i.e. we think of these as meetings and will continue to do so.
+
It does not intend to include CS terms.
  
−
[14:50] MikeBennett: Or they may have the same ontology but a different vocabulary. Not a problem. We call this single event a Meeting, which they call Conference, even if it is the same concepts. Indeed, that thing is an Object Model, not an ontology, and lacks ontological abstractions.
+
TS: IS it too soon to add this link to IOF Resources page?
  
−
[14:51] MikeBennett: We should build our own ontology for this stuff. Using existing UO concepts for Event where these are well attested in the research community.
+
KB: This is OK to add now.
  
−
[14:51] MikeBennett: See e.g. IOF where there is an Event ontology that has problems.
+
There will always be things being added.
  
−
[14:52] MikeBennett: IOF has a technical oversight board meeting. Sometimes covers meta-discussions and organizational considerations.
+
TS: There is work to do on the Occurrents page.
  
−
[14:53] MikeBennett: Are there good ontologies for situations and the like?
+
MB: This is true - I expected to see the range of things in in Fabricio's paper that was presented at IOF, or the range of definitions and sources as seen in the entries for Ontology.
  
−
[14:53] MikeBennett: No Wgs working on those areas specifically yet. All have to be addressed at some point.
+
KB: What kind of thing is a Situation?
  
−
[14:53] MikeBennett: PSL scope doesn't include some of these management considerations.
+
MB: I think from Fabricio it was a Continuant.
  
−
[14:53] MikeBennett: KB developed a Situation Awareness ontology.
+
TS thinks maybe it is occurrent.
  
−
[14:54] MikeBennett: Based on OODA Loops. Was the most cited paper in that journal
+
MB we should be able to think about 'how concept X is conceptualized) e.g. Situation as Occurrent or as Continuants, depending how the end user conceptualizes that notion in its world.
  
−
[14:54] MikeBennett: Went on to do the decision making ontology based on the OODA loop, after that.
+
Some discussion on Situation
  
−
[14:55] MikeBennett: OODA was developed by a jet pilot and KB went on to make it into a formal ontology.
+
==== Synonyms ====
  
−
[14:55] MikeBennett: Should also look at PSL.
+
SMW has a concept of 'Synonym' as part of its language.
  
−
[14:55] MikeBennett: This also relates to CNC Computer Numerical Control), which has implications for decisions as well, so OODA Loop and situational awareness is there.
+
The synonyms listed in the Term List are only approximations not true synonyms.
  
−
[14:56] MikeBennett: PSL is available from ISO at a cost.
+
SMW lets you have a true synonym, i.e. 2 URLs for the same actual page. These are logically equivalent (same page). Like having a word in another language.
  
−
[14:57] MikeBennett: MB: Will check if this is also available as an OMG spec, which would not have cost.
+
KB: This is not what synonym means here.
  
−
[14:57] MikeBennett: 1st version (2001) is available on the NIST site but there are more recent versions.
+
MB IFF the Semantic Shed wanted to maintain its own Glossary, e.g. for CS terms, or AI terms we would use links to the IAOA edu one.
  
−
[14:58] MikeBennett: there is also a conference, CogSIMA on situational awareness. KB chaired this last year. Look at situational awareness from a human PoV. Also like to see this for machines. KB most recent paper deals with machine situational awareness. Looked at e.g. Bullwhip effect.
+
KB: You can't use synonym for those, across different systems or namespaces. If the Shed did need to do a Glossary it would use URIs.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
=== 1. More on the Wiki Design and Actions ===
 +
 
 +
==== Internal Taxonomy for Wiki ====
 +
 
 +
The IAOA Edu Ctee also has books.
 +
 
 +
However these are all on one page, and all the courses on another one page.
 +
 
 +
Or indeed all one big page.
 +
 
 +
Shouldn't these be at least 2 distinct pages?
 +
 
 +
For courses, each course has a series of properties, which are fairly consistent, so that if they made them separate classes (pages) then each course could be put on its own page.
 +
 
 +
This means that you would go to one wiki page for one course.
 +
 
 +
You would not need to jump through multiple pages when looking at one course.
 +
 
 +
KB will action this segregation.
 +
 
 +
Would any of the properties of courses be able to be used anywhere else?
 +
 
 +
i.e. reused on the same wiki for different kinds of thing besides courses
 +
 
 +
(NOT: reused on other sites for the same kind of thing)
 +
 
 +
MB We should consider the overall hierarchy of abstractions for such properties so that more general things have properties common to a wider range of things, all of which are children of that.
 +
 
 +
SMW has Category and Property
 +
 
 +
So Category == OWL Class
 +
 
 +
And Property == property
 +
 
 +
In SMW the only instance of Category can be pages.
 +
 
 +
Can have sub-category.
 +
 
 +
'belongs to' that equates to the Generalization relationship. This is the one used to create the taxonomy we need.
 +
 
 +
We currently have 41 properties. Most of these are built on.
 +
 
 +
Is this already in place and if so, please can we see the Taxonomy?
 +
 
 +
There is not such a taxonomy at present.
 +
 
 +
There is also a sub property relationship.
 +
 
 +
MB recommends we use sub property carefully i.e. lean on the class (Category) hierarchy but use sub properties where there is a narrower property concept that has the same or a narrower domain.
 +
 
 +
TS: There is a thing called Concept
 +
 
 +
Dynamic Category - is a category defined by a Query (like a class constructor in OWL). We are not using that.
 +
 
 +
Difficulty: Queries are nice and you can do dynamic content based on these but it is not instantaneous when you update a page i.e. changes to pages don't make it that the queries update themselves automatically.
 +
 
 +
TS: We do not really expect that anyway.
 +
 
 +
So not so much 'Not instantaneous' as 'Not supported'.
 +
 
 +
These are called 'Concepts' in SMW.
 +
 
 +
ToddSchneider: See https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Concepts
 +
 
 +
There are categories whose members are explicitly defined by a list, and categories defines by a query. Concepts are categories defined by a query.
 +
 
 +
=== 3. Issue Tracker ===
 +
 
 +
This is a thing called 'trac' that was designed for software development. Has been adapted to IAOA. Used for tasks not just changes.
 +
 
 +
This defined tickets, but is used not only for changes to the system uunder management, but also for tasks (like paying someone)
 +
 
 +
MB thinks that is a bad idea.
 +
 
 +
trac is independent from everything else on the IAOA
 +
 
 +
Why do we care about this at SWAO?
 +
 
 +
KB: Has created a project for SWAO in trac
 +
 
 +
However we can't access this.
 +
 
 +
=== 4. AoB ===
 +
 
 +
TS: On the SWAO Page there is a page for Events.
 +
 
 +
Is all the existing material Events going to be moved across to that?
 +
 
 +
KB: Yes.
 +
 
 +
KB Can show us more about trac next time. Then we can decide whether to use it and if so, for what.
 +
 
 +
NB to use this you specify a port number
 +
 
 +
(for the application or something else?)
 +
 
 +
trac.iaoa.org:portnumber
 +
 
 +
Hosted by IAOA
 +
 
 +
which is 777
 +
 
 +
=== AooB? ===
 +
 
 +
How minutes from previous meetings would be represented?
 +
 
 +
Each meeting would have its own page (identified by date) as described above. The original meeting number will appear on the page.
 +
 
 +
The queries for next and previous meetings is not working yet.
 +
 
 +
Recommend doing that after we have formalized the nice taxonomy of Categories (classes) as described above.
 +
 
 +
=== Next meeting: ===
 +
 
 +
2 December (not a public holiday anywhere we care about)
 +
 
 +
Agenda: Finalize the taxonomy and the properties to go with it.
  
−
[15:00] MikeBennett: IOF - can join this - go to the web page, there is a place to Join. MB would like to join - will action this.
 
  
 
== Attendees ==
 
== Attendees ==
−
* [[KenBaclawski|Ken Baclawski]]
+
 
−
* [[MikeBennett|Mike Bennett]]
+
* Mike Bennett
 +
* Andrea Westerinen
 +
* Ken Baclawski
 +
* Todd Schneider
 +
 
  
 
=== Apologies ===
 
=== Apologies ===
−
 
  
 
== Next Meetings ==
 
== Next Meetings ==
Line 175: Line 295:
  
 
[[Category:SWAO| ]]
 
[[Category:SWAO| ]]
−
[[Category:Conference Call| ]]
+
[[Category:Conference_Call| ]]

Latest revision as of 22:26, 13 November 2019

Number 72
Duration 1 hour60 minute
3,600 second
0.0417 day
Date/Time November 11 2019 19:00 GMT
11:00 PST/2:00pm EST
7:00pm GMT/8:00pm CST
Convener Mike Bennett

IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology (SWAO) SIG

Meetings are normally on the first Monday of the month at these times.

Agenda

  1. The new website for SWAO is now installed at https://wiki.iaoa.org/index.php/SWAO:Home
    1. SWAO (and other SIGs) each will have their own namespace and category.
    2. Meeting pages are now named with the date of the meeting rather than the number of the meeting.
    3. Migration is an ongoing activity, but it is progressing well.
    4. What works?
    5. What's next?
  2. The Education SIG website has been has the namespace "Edu".
    1. The IAOA term list/glossary has been migrated!
  3. The issue tracker at https://trac.iaoa.org is running well, but is still being customized.
  4. Matters arising / any other business

Proceedings

1. SWAO Website

KB working on 2 parts to the wiki:

1. Education SIG

2. SWAO SIG

Namespaces

Needed separate namespace for things like Conference Calls versus Meetings etc. Use namespaces in Wikimedia for these distinctions

edu is the namespace for the Education Committee

swao is the SWAO namespace.

Everything has to be preceded by its prefix e.g. swao:

Everything? Everything that has an IRI.

wiki.iaoa.org is the main page

The delimiter goes in the path e.g. wiki.aoa.org / something / something / edu:Category

Eventually the URI will have the prefix but the highlighted word will not.

These things can also be given a category.

e.g. the category 'term' is not the same as edu:term

Term as a category represents a collection of pages.

edu:term is the term Term in the Glossary.

These exist at different meta-levels.

We are all ontologists here so this should not be an issue.

TS: Is this a potential source of confusion?

MB: Not to an ontologist.

KB: We can add HowTo pages to this wiki, describing the semantics of the wiki itself.

TS: Not a high priority.

Every page has a Discussion page.

The discussion points go back into before this migration, but the history tab does not.

Users

ToddSchneider: Ken, what ID and password are needed to edit the new wiki pages?

Note that https://wiki.iaoa.org/index.php/SWAO:Conference_Call_20191007 superseded the old one with n71 in its name, and has the minutes

AndreaWesterinen: Ken, just got the error ... There is no user by the name "arwesterinen". When I tried to reset my password.

KB will gradually add these old ones and make the old names synonymous with the new ones, as true synonyms.

AW new user addition - working through issues on that. account was created.

The new wiki is case sensitive whereas the previous one was not.

TS will check against Maria's site in case there are any such issues - will correct on sight.

Design

Per our design decisions last time, we have the colors and background as specified. The banner will be replaced with one that is closer to our chosen colors.

the Edu Ctee may have other views on the visual design but nothing heard from them as yet on this


2A. The Glossary

There was some discussion prior about levels of sophistication

MB pleased to see it does not include content terms like countries and so on.

End result looks good.

It was a lot of work to make this work.

It does not intend to include CS terms.

TS: IS it too soon to add this link to IOF Resources page?

KB: This is OK to add now.

There will always be things being added.

TS: There is work to do on the Occurrents page.

MB: This is true - I expected to see the range of things in in Fabricio's paper that was presented at IOF, or the range of definitions and sources as seen in the entries for Ontology.

KB: What kind of thing is a Situation?

MB: I think from Fabricio it was a Continuant.

TS thinks maybe it is occurrent.

MB we should be able to think about 'how concept X is conceptualized) e.g. Situation as Occurrent or as Continuants, depending how the end user conceptualizes that notion in its world.

Some discussion on Situation

Synonyms

SMW has a concept of 'Synonym' as part of its language.

The synonyms listed in the Term List are only approximations not true synonyms.

SMW lets you have a true synonym, i.e. 2 URLs for the same actual page. These are logically equivalent (same page). Like having a word in another language.

KB: This is not what synonym means here.

MB IFF the Semantic Shed wanted to maintain its own Glossary, e.g. for CS terms, or AI terms we would use links to the IAOA edu one.

KB: You can't use synonym for those, across different systems or namespaces. If the Shed did need to do a Glossary it would use URIs.


1. More on the Wiki Design and Actions

Internal Taxonomy for Wiki

The IAOA Edu Ctee also has books.

However these are all on one page, and all the courses on another one page.

Or indeed all one big page.

Shouldn't these be at least 2 distinct pages?

For courses, each course has a series of properties, which are fairly consistent, so that if they made them separate classes (pages) then each course could be put on its own page.

This means that you would go to one wiki page for one course.

You would not need to jump through multiple pages when looking at one course.

KB will action this segregation.

Would any of the properties of courses be able to be used anywhere else?

i.e. reused on the same wiki for different kinds of thing besides courses

(NOT: reused on other sites for the same kind of thing)

MB We should consider the overall hierarchy of abstractions for such properties so that more general things have properties common to a wider range of things, all of which are children of that.

SMW has Category and Property

So Category == OWL Class

And Property == property

In SMW the only instance of Category can be pages.

Can have sub-category.

'belongs to' that equates to the Generalization relationship. This is the one used to create the taxonomy we need.

We currently have 41 properties. Most of these are built on.

Is this already in place and if so, please can we see the Taxonomy?

There is not such a taxonomy at present.

There is also a sub property relationship.

MB recommends we use sub property carefully i.e. lean on the class (Category) hierarchy but use sub properties where there is a narrower property concept that has the same or a narrower domain.

TS: There is a thing called Concept

Dynamic Category - is a category defined by a Query (like a class constructor in OWL). We are not using that.

Difficulty: Queries are nice and you can do dynamic content based on these but it is not instantaneous when you update a page i.e. changes to pages don't make it that the queries update themselves automatically.

TS: We do not really expect that anyway.

So not so much 'Not instantaneous' as 'Not supported'.

These are called 'Concepts' in SMW.

ToddSchneider: See https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Concepts

There are categories whose members are explicitly defined by a list, and categories defines by a query. Concepts are categories defined by a query.

3. Issue Tracker

This is a thing called 'trac' that was designed for software development. Has been adapted to IAOA. Used for tasks not just changes.

This defined tickets, but is used not only for changes to the system uunder management, but also for tasks (like paying someone)

MB thinks that is a bad idea.

trac is independent from everything else on the IAOA

Why do we care about this at SWAO?

KB: Has created a project for SWAO in trac

However we can't access this.

4. AoB

TS: On the SWAO Page there is a page for Events.

Is all the existing material Events going to be moved across to that?

KB: Yes.

KB Can show us more about trac next time. Then we can decide whether to use it and if so, for what.

NB to use this you specify a port number

(for the application or something else?)

trac.iaoa.org:portnumber

Hosted by IAOA

which is 777

AooB?

How minutes from previous meetings would be represented?

Each meeting would have its own page (identified by date) as described above. The original meeting number will appear on the page.

The queries for next and previous meetings is not working yet.

Recommend doing that after we have formalized the nice taxonomy of Categories (classes) as described above.

Next meeting:

2 December (not a public holiday anywhere we care about)

Agenda: Finalize the taxonomy and the properties to go with it.


Attendees

  • Mike Bennett
  • Andrea Westerinen
  • Ken Baclawski
  • Todd Schneider


Apologies

Next Meetings

... further results"" contains an extrinsic dash or other characters that are invalid for a date interpretation.

Previous Meetings

... further results"" contains an extrinsic dash or other characters that are invalid for a date interpretation.

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