SWAO:Conference Call 20190701

Number 68
Duration 1 hour60 minute
3,600 second
0.0417 day
Date/Time July 1 2019 18:00 GMT
11:00 PDT/2:00pm EDT
7:00pm BST/8:00pm CEST
Convener Mike Bennett

IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology (SWAO) SIG

Meetings are normally on the first Monday of the month at these times. The meeting this month is an exception.


Per the June 2019 discussion we are moving to a more informal 'catch-up' call, with formal agenda items posted as and when necessary.

This week's call is a general catch-up session.


MikeBennett: EC report-back request

MikeBennett: Propose we aim for Sept 16th.

MikeBennett: This gives us 2 meetings (Aug nth and Sept 2+7 = 9th since 2nd is US Labor Day).

MikeBennett: Also go back to our wiki pages and see what we did.

MikeBennett: We do have a public facing wiki but this has been rather inactive.

MikeBennett: Otherwise mainly we have done the AO Special Edition, and tracking of IAOA logistics (wiki etc.)

MikeBennett: We have met since 2013. 68 meetings.

MikeBennett: In the early times we also considered whether to do some event. We decided not to.

MikeBennett: JOWO - assume they mean something for 2020?

MikeBennett: IAOA Bylaws: Each SIG shall provide a written annual report to the EC before the 1 July each year.

MikeBennett: We did not know this.

MikeBennett: We have never knowingly filed a report.

MikeBennett: We should do a report on the past few years to bring the EC up to date.

MikeBennett: What can we do to kick some life into the public facing wiki?

MikeBennett: Ken will do a review of the proceedings to see what else we did.

MikeBennett: What did we do at other meetings?

MikeBennett: e.g. ISWC, W3C.

MikeBennett: What did we do at W3C - Ken was trying to be a liaison there. In progress? Difficulty with being able to be involved. You have to be a certain kind of thing and then apply. KB progressed this and did get approval but then lost touch.

MikeBennett: So this is an active open liaison.

MikeBennett: Nothing happened in the relevant W3C group. This was a real group with members and activities. Once KB got approval that group had become moribund.

MikeBennett: KB is liaison for IAOA and for this SWAO in that W3C group.

MikeBennett: We can progress that in the next couple of months. Post a message and see what happens.

MikeBennett: What group is it / what was in called?

MikeBennett: Group called "The Community on Data Semantics"

MikeBennett: This was last active in 2013.

MikeBennett: https://www.w3.org/community/exploresemdata/

MikeBennett: https://www.w3.org/community/groups/

MikeBennett: TH above group is no longer listed on w3C

MikeBennett: So contrary to the above, this group does not exist therefore this is not an active liaison.

MikeBennett: there is a similar group called Exploring Semantic Data with some familiar names.

MikeBennett: Perhaps Ken can join that?

AndreaWesterinen: I don't think that the Exploring group is active. Looks like it got founded in 2014 and never did anything.

MikeBennett: We can also report on our efforts to create a shared events calendar between SWAO / IAOA and the Semantic Shed.

MikeBennett: the W3C ESD group also has no current Chair.

MikeBennett: So liaising with that will also be a challenge.

MikeBennett: For events like ISWC - are we talking about things that each of us has done severally, or things that the group has done jointly

MikeBennett: Have we published papers singly as this SIG (other than the AO Special Edition)?

MikeBennett: If this group wanted to publish a white paper or a position paper (not peer reviewed) we can do that and post it on our wiki.

MikeBennett: AW doing an ontology based on narratives based on philosophy of events and events structure = ontology of times and the like. Philosophy of language (Davidsonian stuff). Takes that into account. Incorporates linguistic ideas as rules (e.g. what is a stative verb).

MikeBennett: These are things that apply to 'Eventualities' (Events, Processes, States). Can create SWRL rules that you can use. Links concept to application. Does not have an Upper Ontology for this. Tied in to WordNet.

MikeBennett: MB: It would be great to to this to the TLO stuff at the Semantic Shed (we are covering this next week on Thursday in particular).

MikeBennett: Includes the notion of legal event e.g. the creation of a Contract. so there is a good convergence with the FIBO/Shed BCO thinking on contractual primitives.

AndreaWesterinen: PMESII - Political, military, economic, social, information, infrastructure

AndreaWesterinen: DIMEFIL - Diplomatic, information, military, economic, financial, information, information, law/legal - defines actions

MikeBennett: MB: I like 'Eventuality' as a primitive.

MikeBennett: Narrative - really important for military, for new articles and so on.

MikeBennett: ^news

MikeBennett: See also Records Management.

MikeBennett: MB: Importance of relationships between assertions about things and things the assertion is about.

MikeBennett: Narrative takes that to another level. Very beholder oriented. Can start to unify the knowledge while keeping information on the information.

MikeBennett: Is there something we can do in this SWAO that takes all this stuff, brings it together and moves forward with it.

MikeBennett: MB: happy to liaise back to this group with any advances made in the Semantic Shed informal grouping. If that helps.

MikeBennett: KB: other options

MikeBennett: e.g. the Ontolog Forum miniseries - like we used to do some years ago. We could do a miniseries on this.

MikeBennett: Write up a proposal for a minisseries

MikeBennett: e.g. the Shed could put in a proposal and could use the feedback.

MikeBennett: Did we sponsor some miniseries as SWAO?

MikeBennett: KB will find out from the review of the minutes.

MikeBennett: There is also the next Summit. The focus is on standards (the ideal being that many standards should be ontologies).

MikeBennett: MB there are also standards that are about business practice - less obvious for ontology (need complex TLO for that).

MikeBennett: Also e.g. FHIR terminology.

MikeBennett: AW work starts to show how you can link real conceptual / linguistic matters to the technologies of e.g. SWRL.

MikeBennett: What does Ontology Mean?

MikeBennett: e.g. 'WTF Ontology' blog post somewhere.

MikeBennett: Darmstadt link on this topic.

MikeBennett: A Socratic dialog between various parties on that.

MikeBennett: KB will email a link to this.

AndreaWesterinen: https://projects.fbi.h-da.de/~b.humm/pub/Busse_et_al._-_Actually__What_Does_Ontology_Mean__CIT_.pdf

MikeBennett: Perhaps we should do a blog post on 'What is Ontology?' and integrate these references with commentary.

MikeBennett: from 2015, Journal of Computing and Informatiojn TEchnology

MikeBennett: Originally in InformatikSpektrum, Band 37, Heft 4, August 2014. Copyright-Springer-Verlag Berlin Heidelberg 2014.

MikeBennett: This article assumes that ontologies are only for search

MikeBennett: We have identified many other uses for ontologies (and these might not all use the same style of ontology)

MikeBennett: See article talk by KB on this. Ontologies are not only for search.

MikeBennett: e.g. Integration, NLP, AI (different); inference processing; model driven development (including e.g. in Smart Contracts) and so on.

MikeBennett: We have the beginnings of the article suggested above - a critique of these various sources on 'What is an ontology'.


  • Ken Baclawski
  • Mike Bennett
  • Andrea Westerinen


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