SWAO:Conference Call 20180806

Number 57
Duration 1 hour60 minute
3,600 second
0.0417 day
Date/Time August 6 2018 17:30 GMT
10:30 PDT/1:30pm EDT
6:30pm BST/7:30pm CEST
Convener Mike Bennett

IAOA Semantic Web Applied Ontology (SWAO) SIG

Meetings are normally on the first Monday of the month at these times.


1. Housekeeping

2. Events

3. Discussion of new initiatives

4. AOB

5. Next Meeting


[13:37] Mike Bennett: IAOA membership

[13:38] Mike Bennett: Previously Ken iterated a thing we could do without waiting for the web, but it also sounded that the proper fix was imminent so some of us never did that thing.

[13:38] Mike Bennett: KB is experience database issues so the thing is still not up.

[13:38] Mike Bennett: database design lacks semantics? Institution and regular members represented in the same (DB) Table.

[13:39] Mike Bennett: Whereas institutions have a representative in the same representative.

[13:39] Mike Bennett: Mb and the Semantic Shed crowd (and even FIBO) have a good ontology for this kind of thing.

[13:39] Mike Bennett: Names were mentioned.

[13:40] Mike Bennett: The semantics of the CB does not distinguish between parthood and membership.

[13:40] Mike Bennett: Also the interface is a bit insecure.

[13:40] Mike Bennett: So summary: not done yet. KB still removing vulnerabilities.

[13:40] Mike Bennett: Why not use a triple store and ontology?

[13:41] Mike Bennett: Reasons. Original designer not in a position to take this on.

[13:41] Mike Bennett: Meanwhile how to join?

[13:41] Mike Bennett: Use Paypal.

[13:41] Mike Bennett: The account name is...

[13:42] Mike Bennett: Previously ()when in Italy) there was a fee on the recipient so this method was not allowed.

[13:43] Mike Bennett: This may or may not still be the case.

[13:43] ToddSchneider: Here's a free triple store: http://parliament.semwebcentral.org/

[13:44] Mike Bennett: To use Paypal, please treasurer@iaoa.org - put that email address where it is asked for and it should go through.

[13:44] Mike Bennett: No need for recipient name and address details.

[13:45] Mike Bennett: What is the fee for one year?

[13:45] Mike Bennett: EUR 50.00

[13:46] Mike Bennett: This varies for countries with different development levels e.g. Yemen.

[13:46] Mike Bennett: The table of these countries is still on the website?

[13:48] Mike Bennett: Yes.

[13:48] Mike Bennett: Other agenda items?

[13:48] Mike Bennett: IOF meeting 2 weeks ago in Buffalo: Proposed next F2F would be held in Norway in Feb 2019.

[13:48] Mike Bennett: People here might be interested in attending.

[13:49] Mike Bennett: One of the ontologies needed to support the IOF is aspects of finance - may need to build upon FIBO concepts e.g. Contracts, POs etc.

[13:49] Mike Bennett: People have mentioned the use of FIBO but others have noted this is too complicated. Need someone who can pick out the pieces and yet be consistent with FIBO.

[13:49] Mike Bennett: Aiming for modular ontologies.

[13:53] Mike Bennett: MB: the Semantic Shed is working on just such an ontology, for business and commerce, based around REA.

[13:53] Mike Bennett: This work is based explicitly on a concept-centric (not Realist) ontological stance, unlike BFO.

[13:54] Mike Bennett: TS is writing the Technical Principles guide. Will circulate when more complete.

[13:56] Mike Bennett: MB clarifies that the concept-centric nature of the Shed and pre-FIBO work is incompatible with the BFO stance, even if the concepts may be mappable.

[13:56] Mike Bennett: We also use polyhierarchy.

[13:59] Mike Bennett: BFO forbids polyhierarchy only for one kind of class (asserted classes or something, versus define classes where it is allowed). FIBO/Shed etc. insists upon it, at the level of high level 'Archetypes'.

[13:59] Mike Bennett: BFO uses the notion of 'notion' as distinct from 'concept'.

[14:00] Mike Bennett: Most of those involved have only been indoctrinated.

[14:01] Mike Bennett: ... in BFO.

[14:01] Mike Bennett: IOF will support Common Logic (Gruninger and Katsumi).

[14:05] Mike Bennett: these are all issues to understand in model driven development and in financial matters.

[14:07] Mike Bennett: KB did a tutorial on ontologies in [something]. People wanted to see the philosophical aspects. KB includes the philosophical view of upper ontologies and then talk to the practical implications pf this.

[14:07] Mike Bennett: Next: Cape Town FOIS

[14:07] Mike Bennett: Meeting were curious as to whether SWAO will have SIG meeting there?

[14:07] Mike Bennett: who will be there?

[14:07] Mike Bennett: Mike Bennett

[14:07] Mike Bennett: no-one else in this group.

[14:08] Mike Bennett: We could meet remotely. Schedule a session and see who comes.

[14:08] Mike Bennett: Agenda for that meeting?

[14:08] Mike Bennett: 1. Going over what this SWAO is about, what we have done, what we plan to do, call for volunteers.

[14:09] Mike Bennett: 2. See 1.

[14:09] Mike Bennett: There are some SIGs that only meet at FOIS.

[14:09] Mike Bennett: Consensus: We will have such a meeting.

[14:10] Mike Bennett: Check with Frank Loebe as the main contact to talk about [this]

[14:10] Mike Bennett: where [this] = the logistics for such a call.

[14:10] Mike Bennett: This will take place Wed, Thur or Friday (Monday and Tuesday unavailable).

[14:11] Mike Bennett: Any other Agenda ideas please mail to Mike Bennett.

[14:11] Mike Bennett: Dates are Sept 17 - 21. so dates for the SIG would be 19 - 21.

[14:12] Mike Bennett: Time difference is 6 hours ahead of EDT.

[14:13] Mike Bennett: Not Friday.

[14:13] Mike Bennett: 9am EDT is possible.

[14:14] Mike Bennett: Discourage Friday. Wed or Thursday.

[14:15] Mike Bennett: Next agenda item: what do we want our next project or activit(ies) to be, or do we use the FOIS meeting to determine that.

[14:15] Mike Bennett: We will do that.

[14:16] Mike Bennett: Also discuss our attempt to hold a Workshop. Given that this did not happen.

[14:16] Mike Bennett: Agenda item for this FOIS meeting: Whether to propose a JOWO workshop next year?

[14:18] Mike Bennett: JOWO = Joint Ontology Workshops.

[14:18] Mike Bennett: This was joint between a number of workshops e.g. Onto.com that decided to come together.

[14:19] Mike Bennett: JOWO is also a kind of statue apparently. In a temple. Personally blessed by the Buddha.

[14:20] Mike Bennett: KB also references some of JFS's references to early ontologies in Buddhism and elsewhere. Also Lao Tze.

[14:23] Mike Bennett: This kind of framing and positioning (concept ontology etc.) forms a strong framing of what this SWAO SIG is about - make this a basis for the September meeting and presentations in Cape Town.

[14:25] Mike Bennett: AoB

[14:26] Mike Bennett: What should the next Ontology Summit topic be? (SWAO view as a contribution on this)

[14:26] Mike Bennett: Ontology Visualization and tools?

[14:26] Mike Bennett: Bringing in IOF and semantic technologies for Systems Engineering group into these activities (for Summit; also an idea for SWAO?)

[14:27] Mike Bennett: TS can send an email to Mike G who is also contributing to the IOF effort.

[14:27] Mike Bennett: Also some possible ideas coming out of OMG e.g. in concept ontology modeling and the like.

[14:27] Mike Bennett: Next Meeting:

[14:28] Mike Bennett: 10 September (3 Sept is US Labor Day)


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